Episode 29: Dr. Judy Holcomb on Saint Leo's BA in International Hospitality Management

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Speaker 1:

Saint Leo 360, a 360 degree overview of the Saint Leo University community.



Greg Lindberg:

Welcome to another episode of the Saint Leo 360 podcast. This is your host as usual here with you, Greg Lindberg. On this episode of the podcast, we are talking about the international hospitality management program that we offer here at Saint Leo University. And to help us do so, we have a great guest joining us here on the podcast, we have Dr. Judy Holcomb, and Dr. Holcomb is an associate professor of international hospitality management here at Saint Leo. Dr. Holcomb, welcome to the podcast.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Thanks for having me, Greg.



Greg Lindberg:

Absolutely. Really excited about this. Obviously, hospitality is such a varied field and a lot of fun stuff, I feel like, in hospitality. So, I think we're going to have some fun in this conversation.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Well, it's definitely a fun field. So, we definitely will have some fun.



Greg Lindberg:

Absolutely. Yup. All right. Dr. Holcomb, just to start off, just introduce yourself. Give us a brief bio of yourself, your background, practical experience in the field. And then, if you want to get into how you came to Saint Leo and how long you've been teaching with us?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Okay, great. I spent about 25 years in the hospitality industry in the Orlando market. About 13 years of those were in hotels. And then, after that, it was very different parts of hospitality, such as private clubs, restaurants, arenas and stadiums, et cetera. So, my background really is in a varied amount of hospitality experience, but I consider myself a hotelier at heart because I spent so much time in the hotel industry. I like to share my knowledge, so I decided to go back to school and get advanced degrees so that I can start teaching. I started teaching at the Rosen College of Hospitality Management at the University of Central Florida, which is where I received my advanced degrees. I taught there for about six years, then came over to Saint Leo and I've been here at Saint Leo... This is my 10th year celebrating my anniversary.



Greg Lindberg:

Wow, congrats.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Thank you.



Greg Lindberg:

Nice. And then, in terms of our bachelors in international hospitality management, just talk to me about the history of the program. How long have we had it and as far as the need for actually starting the program?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Okay. Well, this program has been at this university for over 20 years in various forms. It started out as a restaurant degree, and then a generalized hospitality degree, and then a hospitality and tourism degree. And the most recent iteration of the degree is we currently have two specializations, one of them in hotel and resort management, and then the other one in event management. So, it's gone through a lot of iterations, but I feel like this particular version of the degree is really indicative of what students are looking for and what their interests are in the hospitality industry.



Greg Lindberg:

Gotcha. And let's talk a little more about the students who have gone through the program, the students that you've taught in the program over the years, is it primarily the traditional students right out of high school? Was it some adult learners? Talk to me about the demographics.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Since this degree is offered at the university campus, most of our students are traditional, meaning the 18 to 21 or 20 students. Now, we also have some students that transfer from community colleges, which work out really well. And then, occasionally, we will have the non-traditional student who is a little bit older, maybe took some years to work in the industry a couple of years and then decided to go back to school.



Greg Lindberg:

Gotcha. I see. Definitely a nice variety, but sounds like more so the traditional age.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Yes. More so than the traditional. And one important thing to understand about the students that also take this program is that we have a variety of students with regards to nationalities. We have a lot of students from the Caribbean, we have some other international students, we currently have a student from Turkey. So, one of the things that a lot of students have said who have graduated from this program is they enjoy the fact that there are students from... They get to learn from other students that are from other countries, which is especially important in hospitality because hospitality is all over the world.



Greg Lindberg:

Sure. Very interesting. And then, as far as where the program is actually offered, it is exclusively at a university campus, correct?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Yes. That is correct.



Greg Lindberg:

Gotcha. I see. And then, I know you did mention the two tracks. And just talk to me about maybe a little further about those two tracks, and the reason behind offering those two different tracks in the program.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Okay. With hotels and resorts, that particular track or what we call specialization, that would train you to work in any type of hotel and resort, from a Ritz-Carlton down to a Comfort Inn, so we talk about all different types of resorts. And each specialization has four courses in the specialization. The other specialization, which is event management, also helps students learn about event management, and also what's unique about that specialization is that we incorporate... And I believe no other program in the United States is doing this right now, we incorporate project management into that particular specialization. And the reason why we do that because event management really is managing a project, right? And we also teach students about what I call the two sides of the event management, right?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

On one side, you have the venue side, which is hotels, convention centers, conference centers. You could work on that side where you're working at the venue and you're working with other event managers. And then, the opposite side is you're actually an event manager planning an event for a company, an association, an individual maybe, who is having a social event like a wedding, those type of things. So, within that specialization, you'll learn about both sides, and you're learning about event management from a project standpoint from both sides. We also have several minors that we offer. We offer a minor in each of the specializations. For example, if you decide maybe you want an accounting degree, and maybe you might want to do a minor in hospitality and you might want to do hospitality accounting, which is actually what my background. And then also, we have a sport hospitality minor, which if you're interested in sport, gives you a little bit of a background about the sport business industry along with hospitality.



Greg Lindberg:

Interesting. So, we really do offer quite a nice array of options, and paths, or avenues, so to speak, for students.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Yes. Even if the student doesn't know which path they want to take, we also have... It's not really a specialization, maybe we'll call it an unspecialization, where they can pick and choose some classes, both from the event side and then also from the hotel side and just get a generalized hospitality degree.



Greg Lindberg:

Sure. I see. Very nice. Let's talk about the faculty who teach in this program and then just their backgrounds, and I would imagine it's quite a variety of backgrounds and experiences.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Yes. There's two faculty that teach in the program, myself, which you've already heard about my background, but we also have Dr. Lionel Thomas. Now, his background encompasses more on the food and beverage side, so he's been culinary trained. He is also has managed restaurants, et cetera. So, he concentrates more on the food and beverage side, and if you think about events, and hotels, and resorts, there's always a food and beverage element to those. So that food and beverage side is important. You may think, "Well, I'm not going into restaurants. I don't want to do restaurants." But food and beverage is always important when we talk about hospitality.



Greg Lindberg:

Sure. I see. I know that at Saint Leo, we really strive to offer that one-on-one support to students and certainly the low student-to-instructor ratio, and if you could just elaborate a little bit, as far as this program goes, just the availability of the instructors as far as the different courses, and particularly the two of you in terms of this program.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Absolutely. Yes. We have an open door policy, and we meet with students all the time who have questions, pop in our office just to have a question. So, if you come to Saint Leo, you would definitely get that one-on-one experience. I know all my students, Dr. Thomas knows all his students. We discuss opportunities for internships and futures with our students all the time. You're not just going to be a number in our program as opposed to some other programs around the country, where you might be one in a class of 40, 50, 75, or maybe 500. So, we get to know our students personally and we know which direction they want to go in. So, if we hear about opportunities, we'll discuss those with them, which is definitely an advantage over some other universities.



Greg Lindberg:

Absolutely. And I would imagine both of you can really assist and guide students as far as career advice and just what their skill sets, what their strengths are, and just that relationship



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Most definitely, because between the two of us, we have over 35 years industry experience. And even if you don't go to Saint Leo, what I want... The tidbit I want to give you is asked the question about the program. Ask this question about the program you're considering. What type of industry experience do the professors have that are teaching in the program, because if they only have one, or two, or three years of industry experience, you're not going to get a quality teaching experience, because within the hospitality industry, it is a lot about what you learned in the industry, right? It's probably about 50/50. Half your degree, learning from the book, and the other half is your experience that you've received in the industry. So, between Dr. Thomas and I, we can provide that industry experience, and we inject that into our classes. We give examples of a time when this happened or that happened and how did we handle it? And that type of information is invaluable as opposed to just what's in the book.



Greg Lindberg:

Absolutely. That's a great point. And I know in general, Saint Leo University, we really pride ourselves on the practical oriented coursework and curriculum that we offer, and it sounds like that totally applies to this program as well.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Yes, definitely.



Greg Lindberg:

Let's get into some of the courses, some of the topics, just a little more specific as far as the curriculum of this program.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Okay. I'm going to start off first by talking about our internship, because I believe that is the one single most important piece of the curriculum that we offer in our program. And we require a six-credit internship, which is 240 hours in the field. And the internship is usually taken your senior year, sometimes your junior year. A lot of students that have taken the program here at Saint Leo have done the Disney College internship or program. They've used that as their internship, and that attracts a lot of people because we're fairly close to Walt Disney World. Others have done it in their hometown during the summer or once they go back home. So, there's a lot of opportunities for internships, and that is going to be the crux of where you get your experience, in addition to, hopefully, you are trying to work in the industry while you are going to Saint Leo, because the more experience you can come out with once you graduate, the better off you're going to be.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Some other courses we offer that all students no matter what specialization they take, these courses are required, which is guest service. So, every hospitality organization has a very heavy element or a very important element of guest service. That is what differentiates hospitality organizations, right? A hotel room is a hotel room is a hotel room, this is what I tell my students, in fact, I just lectured on that today. It has a bed, it has a phone, it has a bathroom, right? So, if you stay at a Ritz-Carlton, maybe the furnishings will be a little bit nicer, maybe the bed will be a little bit softer, those types of things, but everybody offers a hotel room. What is the distinction? Service, right? So, we emphasize that in all our classes, and we require our students to take a class in guest service.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Another course that is required for all students within the program is human resource management, because what are we teaching you to do in this program? We're teaching you to be a manager within the hospitality industry. So, human resource management, how to manage people? How to do all the functions of an HR person is important, because as a manager in the hospitality industry, you might not have an HR director in the particular property or somewhere else where you might be working. You might need to hire, you might need to fire. You might need to figure out how to retain employees. All those important HR functions, you learn about. Also, we require all our students to take a food and beverage operations class, because as I said before, almost every single aspect of hospitality has some type of food and or beverage component to it, right? Think about an event. Greg, what was the last event you went to?



Greg Lindberg:

It's been a while, just with the [crosstalk 00:16:16]-



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

I know, especially with COVID, yes. But, in fact, how did-



Greg Lindberg:

Yeah. Basketball game, I think I did go to.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Okay. So, a basketball game. Was there food there?



Greg Lindberg:

Yeah. Plenty of it.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Of course, right? Think about a wedding, right? There's food at a wedding. Thinking about a corporate meeting, there's always food there, right? There might be alcohol drinks as well. So, food and beverage is an important component of hospitality and we teach you about that as well. So, these are the courses, along with introduction to hospitality, to give you a feel for what is included in the hospitality industry, and as well as those specialization cores that I was telling you about.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

And then, in addition, you are getting a degree within the college of business, right? And again, this is something that may be a little bit different than other degrees you might be looking at. We are housed within the College of Business. So, the core body of knowledge within the college of business, all the hospitality students are required to take. So, we're talking accounting, finance, macroeconomics, microeconomics, management, law, those types of things. So, you get exposed to a bunch of other students who have other degrees within the College of Business. So, you get to share your knowledge with them about hospitality, and they get to share their knowledge with you about their degrees, such as maybe sport business, or marketing, or something else.



Greg Lindberg:

Right. Very interesting. And I think that is a great point that I did just want to really emphasize. This is a management program, this is not just working in hospitality in general. Obviously, this is preparing you for the management type roles, correct?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

That is correct, yes.



Greg Lindberg:

Right. Nice. I know you have mentioned Disney and perhaps a few other organizations, companies out there. Talk to me about the connections that we have with specific organizations, specific companies, where students could intern, potentially work with this degree.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Okay. One of the things that we have and in a lot of other programs, another hospitality degrees around the world have, but I think ours is a little bit more unique, is an industry council. We have a group of individuals, who have agreed to be part of our council, provide information to us, advise us about what's going on in the industry. What are the trends? What are they seeing? What do they think recent graduates need? Those types of things. And we have meetings twice a year and the students are invited, so that's the part that I think makes us unique, because I know of a lot of other industry councils that hospitality programs have, but students never hear about them or never see those people. With our hospitality industry council, we have meetings and students get to attend and they get to meet these individuals. They get to network with them. And we have had many students do internships through their connections with our industry council members.



Greg Lindberg:

Wow. That's big, to be able to have that direct line and direct access for the students to those professionals. I feel like that's a huge selling point.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Definitely. Definitely. And then, we also, Dr. Thomas and I, have connections with other people in the industry as well. And we have students that have done internships or alumni of our program, which is also usually a good resource for internships. For example, we have several students, that are recent alumnus, working for Hyatt Hotels & Resorts. We have students working for cruise lines that are alumni. We have students that working for Disney that are our alumni. So, those are great sources of contact and networking as well.



Greg Lindberg:

Absolutely. In terms of the main goals, the main outcomes of this program, how would you like to summarize that?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

I think if I had to summarize that, I would say that we are training students to be independent thinkers as well as guests conscious management within the hospitality industry. I mean, not only is guest service important, but also for students to understand that there are times when they have to make decisions or try to come up with solutions for their job in a management position, where Googling something is not going to give you the answer, right? And maybe it'll give you some background, but it's not going to tell you how to deal with this irate guests that's extremely upset with you because his room wasn't ready in time, or the fact that the wedding is being postponed or delayed because the flowers didn't get delivered when they were supposed to. I mean these are situations that you need the resources from experience and from book knowledge to understand how to approach and to solve these issues.



Greg Lindberg:

Sure. That's well said. As far as hospitality programs and maybe specifically international hospitality management programs out there, talk about just how common they are. And obviously, we've talked a lot about just what separates this one from others? And I would imagine, like you were saying before, the project management, the business aspect of the curriculum is definitely unique.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Yes. There are a lot of hospitality programs around the world, specifically around the United States. If I had to guess, it's probably about 300 hospitality programs around the United States. I don't know of too many that are internationally focused. We try to bring into the things that are discussed within the United States' ground, but also internationally, especially in hotel and resort realm, because within the hotel and resort realm, there are hotels and resorts around the world. I mean, you pick a city anywhere around the world and I'll tell you, there's probably a hotel within 25 miles of that city or within that city.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

So, really if you want to go into hotels specifically or event management, you can work anywhere around the world. There are programs around the world, but what separates us I believe is, and this also pertains to our faculty that are within Saint Leo, is the caring touch that you get at Saint Leo and our program. I mean, our faculty and I have worked at other universities and our faculty care about their students. They are there to ensure that the students get a good education and that they get information that they need in order to graduate and be successful in the industry.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

I can't necessarily say that about all professors and all hospitality programs around. There are a lot of other pressures that are put on professors in other programs to publish articles, et cetera. So, sometimes they don't have time to focus on the students, but because Saint Leo, we are a teaching university, we focus on teaching. So, we put that time in, and I'm very proud to say that every single professor that I work with outside of our program, within the college of business and even other professors around Saint Leo, I've not run into a professor at Saint Leo where I can truly say that I don't think that they care about the students. They all have the same attitude and same commitment to the students that myself and Dr. Thomas have. So, if you were to ask any Saint Leo graduate, who came to the university campus, I promise you that 99% of them will... If you ask them that question, they will say yes.



Greg Lindberg:

Right. That's definitely well said.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

And then again, like I said before, what makes us stand out is the fact that between Dr. Thomas and I, we have over 25 years of industry experience in the hospitality industry, which is crucial. In fact, when I hired Dr. Thomas four years ago, I put in the ad that I was looking for someone to teach that didn't have less than 10 years experience in the industry. So, I don't see Dr. Thomas leaving, but if for some reason he does leave, I will continue to do that, because I am a firm believer that you cannot teach hospitality if you've not had a decent amount of experience working in it because it is a unique industry. It is a 365-day a week, 24-hour and 24/7 unique type of industry that needs someone who has had that experience.



Greg Lindberg:

Right. No question. And that certainly helps us dovetail into the next item here, just on career opportunities. And I would imagine, people really do have to have a passion for this type of work to be successful at it. Just like you said, in terms of the 365, 24/7 nature, working holidays here on occasion, I would imagine, is as part of it as well. And just stuff you could elaborate a little bit more on the different areas that one could work in different types of organizations.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Okay. Yes, you're right. And that's the other thing too is we don't sugar coat it. This is a demanding industry because of the fact that most, for example, hotels are open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It never closes. Events, when do events occur? During the weekend. Weddings, you hardly ever hear of a wedding on a Wednesday night, right? So, you're going to be working a lot of hours and you're going to be working when everybody else is off having fun. So, yes, as you said, Greg, you have to be passionate about this industry. Now, I know a lot of people that have worked in this industry and who currently work in this industry, and once you get into this industry and it gets in your blood, it's very hard to get rid of, because it's an exciting industry, you work in beautiful places, you're working in a fun atmosphere where people are having fun, either they're on vacation or they're there for an event or they're... So, it's a fun atmosphere, right?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

So, working those hours, they don't necessarily seem to be that bad because of the fact that you are having fun and you're in a fun atmosphere. And another thing too, in the hospitality industry, one big thing about the industry is they're very community driven. When you work at a hotel, everybody pitches in. It's not uncommon in a big hotel, if they're having a large banquet tomorrow and they have to turn over the ballroom, meaning they have to set up the ballroom with tables and set the silverware and china and all that kind of stuff, and they only have a couple hours to do it, it's not uncommon for employees from all different departments to come and help do that, even though that's not their job. And that's the thing about the hospitality industry too that is fun and is great to work for, because it's very common that everybody chips in.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

So, some of the career opportunities with a degree from Saint Leo would be, again, so on the hotel and resort side, there are many different things you can do in the hotel industry, right? You can work in the front office area. So, you can work your way up from the front office staff up to front office manager and all the way up to general manager. You can work on the food and beverage side in a hotel. So, you can work in one of their many restaurant outlets or bar outlets and work your way up to the manager position. Or you can work on the sales side, where you're actually selling group to groups. Or you work on the catering or banquet side, where you actually help plan an event, whether it be a wedding, or very large convention, or some type of meetings, small meeting or something like that. Or you can do accounting, you can work in the maintenance side of things, you can work in HR at a midsize to larger properties if you like human resources.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

So, that's the one interesting thing about working in a hotel, is their many, many different aspects that you could work in. Now, if you wanted to work and do marketing, or maybe you wanted to do development, then you would work at a corporate office for a hotel chain and that's possible as well. And then, on the event side, again, you have different areas of events that you could do. You can do a social event. So, you would be a wedding planner or you would plan any kind of social event like birthday parties or anniversary parties, those types of things. Or you can work on the business side where you're planning large events for associations or corporations, where they're having conventions, or large meetings, or stuff like that, or maybe expos, or trade shows.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Also, on the event side, there's many different avenues you can go down, and different types of events, you can also be a special event planner, where you're planning different types of special events that are out of the ordinary. You can plan large sporting events, maybe you can be on the planning committee for the Olympics or the Super Bowl halftime. I mean there's all sorts of opportunities, which come with both of these degrees. And it's not just, "Okay, I'm going to be getting an accounting degree and I'm going to be an accountant." And that's it.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

I love accounting, that's what I used to do. So, I'm not picking on a accounting. It's just that there's so many different opportunities, guest facing and Non-guest facing. If we go back into the hotel part, let's say you don't feel like you're the type of person who always wants to be in front of the guest, because it does take a lot out of you. You have to be on all the time. You have to be what they call onstage, as Disney calls it, right? So, you have to be onstage and that can be a little tiring and sometimes that's not for everybody. So, if you don't want to do that, that doesn't necessarily mean that this degree is not for you. You could be what we call back of the house. So, you're not directly facing in front of the guest. You could be a cook, you could be a chef, you could be working in accounting, you be working in maintenance, you could be working in the housekeeping department. All these areas don't directly face guests. So, if you're a little worried about that, then there are places for you as well.



Greg Lindberg:

Great point and well said. And I think that the fact that there is such a variety of options, really just emphasizes the importance of that internship and that practical experience that our students get, so they can really carve out what path they truly want to go down.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Most definitely, yeah.



Greg Lindberg:

I did want to wrap up here, just speaking about the COVID-19 pandemic. I know we did reference it earlier, and obviously it has taken its whole on many parts of the world in many industries including hospitality. And I'm really curious from your standpoint, just the current state of hospitality in general and looking ahead into the crystal ball.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Okay. I'm going to be honest, hospitality industry has been hit very hard by the pandemic, because of the fact that if you want to travel somewhere and stay in a hotel, what do you need to do? Travel on a plane. A lot of people aren't traveling on a plane right now. A lot of people don't want to go to a theme park, where there's a lot of people. A lot of people are not having an event because some states aren't allowing events, or if they do, people don't feel comfortable being around that many people. So, yes, the pandemic has hit the hospitality industry very hard. However, I have talked to many people in the hospitality industry. In fact, today I just read an article about a survey that was done with hospitality professionals, and now that we have a vaccine, they are expecting to be back and up and running. Most of them expect to be up and running and back to 2019 levels by 2022. So, if someone's coming into the program, by the time they graduate, we'll be way past this.



Greg Lindberg:

Sure, sure. And I know there's been a lot of talk about, just once everything is essentially said and done with the pandemic, how everyone's going to be so eager to travel, to go to events, to just... I don't want to say go crazy, but they're going to make up for lost time, let's say, would agree with that opinion?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Most definitely. We see that there's a very large pent-up demand for travel as well as for people meeting in person. I think if we've learned anything from this pandemic, we've learned that doing a virtual meeting does not at all replace doing an in-person meeting, because one of the main reasons that people want to meet in person, especially from a business standpoint, is to network and to connect. And that's very hard to do in a virtual meeting. And in fact, it's almost impossible to network with others at a virtual meeting. So, we know for a fact it's going to come back, it's just going to take time. And it's probably going to come back even stronger than ever, because of all this pent-up demand that people have. I know I'm an avid traveler, I've traveled all around the world, and I have not been on a major trip since summer... this summer, it will be two years. So, I am ready, so once I have my vaccination and once I know it's safe to travel, you better watch out because I'm all over the place.



Greg Lindberg:

I second that. I'm right with you. Yup. All right. Again, we've been speaking with Dr. Judy Holcomb on the international hospitality management program, the bachelor's program here at Saint Leo, and Dr. Holcomb, just wondered if you had any final words on the program before we wrap up?



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

If you're out there thinking about a program, as I said, take my piece of advice about trying to find out and maybe difficult, but try to find out what the years of experience that the faculty members have that are teaching in the program. That is a very important aspect. And I really truly feel... I wouldn't be in Saint Leo 10 years if I didn't feel that this was a great place to work and a great place to share my hospitality industry experience with students.



Greg Lindberg:

Well said. Absolutely. All right. Well, Dr. Holcomb, really appreciate the time, really appreciate your insight. And obviously, you have many, many years of experience as does your colleague in the program, and just wants to thank you so much for your time here on the Saint Leo 360 podcast.



Dr. Judy Holcomb:

Thank you for having me, Greg.



Speaker 1:

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